Disappearing ammo? where is it? Or how to turn a rifle into a club in 5 steps
 

I have been wondering what the gov'ts response is/will be to all increased purchasing of guns over the last six months. Will there be gun confiscation? 2nd Amendment says no. There have been and will be more gun exchanges. . .drop off your guns to the Police and in exchange you will get tickets to "monster truck rally" "ball game". . .etc. This will not really reduce the overall supply of guns in the United States of America. I started asking myself, if my overall goal was to reduce the number of guns in the United States, how would I do it, legally, quickly and without much fuss from gun owners?

On that note,here is a comedy routine from Chris Rock that will segueway into my idea.

Funny routine, but what if ammo became very difficult and/or expensive to get. Gov't can easily regulate ammo faster that it can guns. There is NOTHING in the US CON that says the gov't has to allow ammo. You have the right to "bear arms" but if you have no ammo. . .

In my area, Sussex county, Delaware the only ammo that is plentiful is .22 for riles and shotgun shells. Both for hunting purposes. 9mm, 10mm, .40, .357, .45 etc is damn hard to get. The gun shops are selling three boxes per customer, otherwise they would have no ammo to sell.

My question is: How likely is it the gov't will make ammo sells very difficult, limit quantities and regulate sells? You must fill out forms stating what your purpose is for the caliber, you can only purchase 1 or maybe 2 boxes of ammo every quarter, only certified ammo dealers can sell. . .etc. This would raise the price sky high on ammo.

How much ammo would a person need to survive in this type of environment? 1000 rds, 10,000 rds? How much would that cost? A black market will occur overnight. Criminals will have little difficulty getting the ammo, but us citizens will have to go through hell to get it. Ofcourse gov't agencies will be well supplied, as they are the defenders of our freedoms!

Am I imagining this? How realistic am I? This is what I would do if I wanted to regulate gun control quickly. How to turn a rifle into a club in five easy steps.

1. Gov't stops selling used ammo casings for reloads.
2. Pass legislation limited sale of ammo to certified dealers only and tax the hell out of it.
3. Pass legislation limited the amount of ammo that can be made in a year.
4. Pass more legislation requiring a mountain of paperwork and limit amount of ammo to be purchased.
5. Wait until gun owners use up their saved ammo thus turning rifles into clubs and pistols into rocks.

What does the collective brain of GIM think? Am I on or a lunatic?

The Great Ag

Re: Disappearing ammo? where is it? Or how to turn a rifle into a club in 5 steps
 

Well, I'm not qualified to comment on your lunacy :biggrin: BUT if I were gonna implement backdoor gun control, ammo is the way I'd go about it.

All they would have to do is slap a host of new EPA regs on primer construction, for example, and put most of the manufacturers out of business, along with restriction of imports for the same reason, and the ammo supply would dry up to nothing. Grant an exemption for military/police ammo, and the civilian market would be left empty.

Re: Disappearing ammo? where is it? Or how to turn a rifle into a club in 5 steps
 

Very contructive post, Thanks Andy:

How likely is the gov't to do this, in your opinion? I would make gun confiscation the smoke and mirror while I quietly reduced the availability of ammo.

The gun owners would launch a huge campaign, maybe even have a US wide rally where all gun owners fire 1 shot at a specific time and day. Ofcourse the gun owners would win the fight for their guns but lose their ammo.

It make sense to me.

The Great Ag

Re: Disappearing ammo? where is it? Or how to turn a rifle into a club in 5 steps
 

The federal government has been legislating ammo for decades because it is not specifically Constitutionally protected. Recall the cop-killer boogeyman that resulted in billions of destroyed rounds, import sanctions and an alarming increase in officer fatality via head wounds. The stupidity lay in the fact that AP characteristics have practically nothing to do with bullet composition and everything to do with velocity.

Re: Disappearing ammo? where is it? Or how to turn a rifle into a club in 5 steps
 

Gosh man, I dunno....I've given up having any clue what their game plan is....

BUT from the current shortage, it would appear SOMETHING is going on. It could be that folks are simply stocking up in a big way and overwhelming the normal supply system.....I'd like to think that is what is going on.....but if this keeps up another year or so, then my guess is something more along the lines of a form of control is happening....so only time will tell.

Fortunately, I am well stocked with loaded ammo and reload components, the latter having been gathered up during 2006/07, assuming a Dem was destined to take office after the Bush fiasco, and that said Dem would do everything in their power to curb firearms. I haven't bought a box in years.

Re: Disappearing ammo? where is it? Or how to turn a rifle into a club in 5 steps
 

I think you guys have fallen into a perception trap.

The 2nd Amendment protection certainly includes ammunition with the language "to...bear arms".

Consider what the framers had in mind and what their intent was when they wrote that, and especially in light of what they had recently experienced*. How would one bear arms without powder* and lead balls? It makes no sense not to include the ammunition, as the ammunition is essential for an arm to be an arm as intended, i.e. not as a club. At that time the weapon of the day was a long rifle, not a sword. The time for an edged weapon to be the weapon of the day had passed.

If you allow your adversaries to define the terms then you will get what you deserve.

It is incongruent to not extend 2nd Amendment protection to ammunition, and especially ammunition. It's not the rifle that's lethal, it's the bullets. Without the bullets your rifle is merely a wallhanger.

*'The shot heard 'round the world' occurred as a result of the Redcoats coming after the powder, not coming for the arms themselves.

Re: Disappearing ammo? where is it? Or how to turn a rifle into a club in 5 steps
 

I'm not quite ready to write this off as a shortage manufactured by government, though like Andy, give it another year and I'll start thinking that way. I've talked to a number of people in the industry and I'm thinking more along the lines of panic buying and hoarding. I know a lot of people sitting on lifetime + supplies of ammo. It's hard to get rifle primers these days but I know guys with 30 thousand or more. There is a lot of product out there, but hidden away.

Re: Disappearing ammo? where is it? Or how to turn a rifle into a club in 5 steps
 

If you guys are saying that "the right to bear arms shall not be infringed" as not covering ammo, then I whole-heartedly disagree. A gun without ammo is not arms. A sword without a blade is not arms, etc. Arms not being infringed includes arms. It says nothing about guns specifically.

If you are just saying the government doesn't give a dam and will do or at least try it anyway, yes I could see that possibility, but it would certainly be in violation of the "right to keep and bear arms".

Ammo is quite simply, no less arms, than guns.

Re: Disappearing ammo? where is it? Or how to turn a rifle into a club in 5 steps
 

Here's a post that I just copied from a shooting site that I frequent. This will tell you precisely where the ammo is. Sooner or later the bubble will burst and there will be a lot of cheap ammo for sale. This probably won't last.

Copy Follows:

"about two weeks ago, a buddy & I were in a Wally-World, & the woman there was complaining that some guy came in & bought a hundred dollars worth of 9MM, left & came back in 10 minutes and bought the rest of them, about $800 more; Half to three quarters an hour more, some other guy came in and bought all the .357, .44, & 45ACP they had. She was ticked because they limit the purchases of oil, "so everybody gets a chance at the sale prices, why don't they do the same for ammo??" But, Wally-World doesn't care, that's another store that'll take your money and your rights in the same breath."

Re: Disappearing ammo? where is it? Or how to turn a rifle into a club in 5 steps
 

While we are on the subject of ammo, what about the firearms themselves?

I constanlty browse the larger online dealers like Buds,as well as my local dealers. WHERE THE FU*K ARE ALL THE FIRE ARMS?

I have been looking for a bersa 40 and a Bersa 9. Nothing ,nada zilch zero. No assault rifles no riot guns nothing.

And as far as the ammo goes, does anyone here really think the feds could stop the flow of ammo? Legally maybe, but it seems to me a large black market would emerge.

Re: Disappearing ammo? where is it? Or how to turn a rifle into a club in 5 steps
 

I went to a gun show today and was surprised with the amount of ammo available. The only calibers that I noticed there were none of were 380 auto, 44 mag, and 30 cal carbine. Also the coin dealers were buying silver but were not really interested in buying gold. They said scrap gold was coming out of the woodwork. I asked how retail gold and silver sales were going and they said lots of lookers but few buyers.

Re: Disappearing ammo? where is it? Or how to turn a rifle into a club in 5 steps
 

I think the current ammo shortage is due to a combination of speculation (as you pointed out above), hoarding due to fear of potential legislation and/or period of social unrest, and a lot of new people wanting ammo to feed their new toys.

Re: Disappearing ammo? where is it? Or how to turn a rifle into a club in 5 steps
 

An anectdotal report:

A friend of mine went online a few weeks ago and order 10K each of the four big brands of small rifle primers from a large retailer. He reasoned that, since they were still advertising the "normal" price of $29/1000, they might deliver and he might actually get some at reasonable prices.

Well they just zapped his credit card $345 for the first 10K (including tax and HAZMAT charges) so he suspects the first batch is on the way.

If you look at gunbroker.com you can buy virtually any kind of primers you want for $75/1000 (or more), the supply having been swallowed up apparently by those evil speculators. <grin>

I had a similar experience earlier this year when I bought a 5.56 millimeter rifle. The distributor's online store said they had 15 or so in stock. Next day, seven, so I bought one. The day after I bought one, they showed one in stock and the price was $100 higher, so I bought another one. The next day they still showed one in stock so I concluded they were not being honest about how many they had in stock in order to feed the feeding frenzy and run up the prices.

I tend to believe more that the combination of more government buying and lots more civilian buying has overwhelmed the suppy chain. The result is likely that if the buying frenzy ever slows down, the supply will be restored but at significantly higher prices.

'Til the government takes its next shot at the armed populace.

Re: Disappearing ammo? where is it? Or how to turn a rifle into a club in 5 steps
 

Nice post as always.

Re: Disappearing ammo? where is it? Or how to turn a rifle into a club in 5 steps
 

The US government made a deal with the CCI factory in Lewiston, ID. And now they have all but stopped production for the civilian market.
I think this ammo shortage is on purpose. It will get really bad, and then they will pass new tax laws to make the ammo 3x more expensive.
I'm not buying precious metals at the moment. I'm filling in the holes in my ammo inventory and trying to put new optics on all my hunting rifles.

Re: Disappearing ammo? where is it? Or how to turn a rifle into a club in 5 steps
 

PM's OUT...:452:LEAD/BRASS...IN:coolbeer:

Re: Disappearing ammo? where is it? Or how to turn a rifle into a club in 5 steps
 

By way of follow up, my friend confirmed that he received notice and tracking info for the package containing the first 10K primers.

:15_1_70v:

Re: Disappearing ammo? where is it? Or how to turn a rifle into a club in 5 steps
 

Just another report. Stopped by Walmart and they were completely out of all handgun ammo. Some shotgun stuff, but that was all.

Re: Disappearing ammo? where is it? Or how to turn a rifle into a club in 5 steps
 

I don't think anyone here is saying that bullets are not contained in the 2nd ammendment.

They are saying the Democrats will SAY it is not covered in the 2nd Ammendment. They will pass whatever they wish and drag out any court opposition for years.

Re: Disappearing ammo? where is it? Or how to turn a rifle into a club in 5 steps
 

i tried buying 9mm this weekend.

gander mountain: none.
fleet farm: none.
ace harware: none.
true value: none.
local gun store guy: none.
walmart #1: none.
walmart #2: none.

i just tried buying some wolf 9mm from cabelas. none. so, i caled them. i discovered there is NO 9mm at cabelas in any brand. it is ALL backordered.

if somebody breaks in my house, i am going to have to thrwo the beretta at them and hope it hits them in the head.

Re: Disappearing ammo? where is it? Or how to turn a rifle into a club in 5 steps
 

Went to wal mart last night to see if they had anything in. I stop in every other day or so now at this point.

A couple in front of me was looking for .223. Shelves were bare. The guy behind the counter told them that to come back in the mornings around 8 or so(as thats when the night shift restockers get done restocking the shelves) and check, as by 9 all their new inventory of ammo is pretty much gone.

Said some guy came in the day before and bought the entire stock of .380 and .223 as soon as the boxs were opened.

Re: Disappearing ammo? where is it? Or how to turn a rifle into a club in 5 steps